Why So Much Talk About Suicide on JDU?
Donald13 (Jul 30 - 3:01 pm)
This seems like a darm and depressing forum with so muc suicide talk. Besides, there is no need to kill yourself. Apophis is going to crash into Earth on April 13, 2036.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/99942_Apophis
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This seems like a darm and depressing forum with so muc suicide talk. Besides, there is no need to kill yourself. Apophis is going to crash into Earth on April 13, 2036.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/99942_Apophis
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CleverLoginName (Jul 30 - 4:39 pm)
According to the article you linked to, the chances of that asteroid hitting Earth are 1 in 250,000, only slightly better than the odds of breaking into BIGLAW after graduating without winning the summer associate lottery.
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According to the article you linked to, the chances of that asteroid hitting Earth are 1 in 250,000, only slightly better than the odds of breaking into BIGLAW after graduating without winning the summer associate lottery.
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suicideispainless (Jul 31 - 12:25 am)
Maybe because when you're unemployed you have a lot of time to reflect on the pointlessness of your life.
Also, 25 (almost 26) years is WAY too long to wait.
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Maybe because when you're unemployed you have a lot of time to reflect on the pointlessness of your life.
Also, 25 (almost 26) years is WAY too long to wait.
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douchomatic (Jul 31 - 2:11 am)
2036? That leaves us 26 years, and to do what with our lives? Besides, I saw the projected track, it's supposed to hit Mexico or W Africa.....doesn't seem to affect the Central Authoritarian Regions that most of us call home (North America, Europe, East Asia)
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2036? That leaves us 26 years, and to do what with our lives? Besides, I saw the projected track, it's supposed to hit Mexico or W Africa.....doesn't seem to affect the Central Authoritarian Regions that most of us call home (North America, Europe, East Asia)
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causanortis (Jul 30 - 3:16 pm)
Oh we'll be gonners way before then, we're gonna die on December 21, 2012 (ironically my birthday) remember?
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Oh we'll be gonners way before then, we're gonna die on December 21, 2012 (ironically my birthday) remember?
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TTTsuicide (Jul 30 - 3:17 pm)
what the hell else are we supposed to talk about when we have no jobs, no chance of getting jobs and soul crushing debt? For me, suicide might just be my only option.
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what the hell else are we supposed to talk about when we have no jobs, no chance of getting jobs and soul crushing debt? For me, suicide might just be my only option.
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therewillbeblood (Jul 30 - 4:32 pm)
I never understood people killing themselves over financial issues. Mental illness, depression, I can at least understand a bit. But because you don't have money?
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I never understood people killing themselves over financial issues. Mental illness, depression, I can at least understand a bit. But because you don't have money?
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therewillbeblood (Jul 30 - 5:45 pm)
Only if you let it. Are you at risk of homelessness? As in, not even a relative's basement to move into?
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Only if you let it. Are you at risk of homelessness? As in, not even a relative's basement to move into?
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TTTsuicide (Jul 30 - 5:58 pm)
I have a place to live but that's about it. I actually kind of wish I was homeless, that would make it a hell of a lot easier just to pull the plug.
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I have a place to live but that's about it. I actually kind of wish I was homeless, that would make it a hell of a lot easier just to pull the plug.
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therewillbeblood (Jul 30 - 5:59 pm)
Do you have food to eat? If your absolute needs are met you are doing better than a sizeable chunk of the population.
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Do you have food to eat? If your absolute needs are met you are doing better than a sizeable chunk of the population.
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causanortis (Jul 30 - 4:35 pm)
Having NO or ZERO money would be a much needed improvement for many of these people.. A lot of people have Negative 100k.... Quite a few homeless and mentally ill people are in better financial position because they don't owe anything.
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Having NO or ZERO money would be a much needed improvement for many of these people.. A lot of people have Negative 100k.... Quite a few homeless and mentally ill people are in better financial position because they don't owe anything.
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Donald13 (Jul 30 - 11:18 pm)
If you have no job, why not relocate to an area where the jobs are? I'm in north Jersey, but 99% of the jobs I apply to are in DC (govt. jobs). Unless you own a house, there is nothing stopping you from moving.
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If you have no job, why not relocate to an area where the jobs are? I'm in north Jersey, but 99% of the jobs I apply to are in DC (govt. jobs). Unless you own a house, there is nothing stopping you from moving.
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cowgod (Jul 31 - 12:49 am)
I was pretty sure from your original post that you were an idiot, and this confirms it.
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I was pretty sure from your original post that you were an idiot, and this confirms it.
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pharmstudent (Jul 30 - 11:44 pm)
You guys aren't disabled or anything. There is a lot of potential for any of you JDUer's.
For instance, you can just bail on your student loans tomorrow and leave to South Korea, Saudi or Japan tomorrow to teach English.
You can join the French Legion as well and say good bye to sallie mae. There is no reason you have to kill yourself. You can still lead a happy and productive life.
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You guys aren't disabled or anything. There is a lot of potential for any of you JDUer's.
For instance, you can just bail on your student loans tomorrow and leave to South Korea, Saudi or Japan tomorrow to teach English.
You can join the French Legion as well and say good bye to sallie mae. There is no reason you have to kill yourself. You can still lead a happy and productive life.
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suicideispainless (Jul 31 - 12:26 am)
Saudis are requiring certified teachers + 2 years experience.
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Saudis are requiring certified teachers + 2 years experience.
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cowgod (Jul 31 - 12:48 am)
Joining the French Foreign Legion ain't as easy as you make it sound. They won't take just anyone.
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Joining the French Foreign Legion ain't as easy as you make it sound. They won't take just anyone.
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pharmstudent (Jul 31 - 2:07 am)
Be an English teacher. It can't be more degrading than working at staples.
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Be an English teacher. It can't be more degrading than working at staples.
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douchomatic (Jul 31 - 2:14 am)
I spent a month teaching english to foreigners in America, it really sucked. It's not for everyone.
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I spent a month teaching english to foreigners in America, it really sucked. It's not for everyone.
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causanortis (Jul 31 - 12:13 am)
You do realize that wanted fugitives and high school drop outs commonly talk glowingly about the prospects of joining the Foreign Legion and escapping their current predicament.. Just a sad note on our society when people from all social and economic strata believe that one of their only of their only way out of total ruin is to go to France to join a group if mercenaries for hire.
Right now starving Ethiopians covered with lice and vermin are having a conversations about how their plight would be sigificantly improved, if only they could find their way to France.
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You do realize that wanted fugitives and high school drop outs commonly talk glowingly about the prospects of joining the Foreign Legion and escapping their current predicament.. Just a sad note on our society when people from all social and economic strata believe that one of their only of their only way out of total ruin is to go to France to join a group if mercenaries for hire.
Right now starving Ethiopians covered with lice and vermin are having a conversations about how their plight would be sigificantly improved, if only they could find their way to France.
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pharmstudent (Jul 31 - 2:04 am)
It's not sad. It's only sad when people don't try to get out of a fucked up situation and whine.
I also did mention going to South Korea.
You only need a BA to get into that gig. Leave your JD off your resume if you want.
-You go there, live like a king on that salary.
-Escape your debt, pay no American taxes = win/win
-if you are white, get laid quickly
If you are already married you can still do this. It's your choice really, nobody will stop you from living with parents. Maybe living with your parents might actually make them happier because you can spend quality time with them.
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It's not sad. It's only sad when people don't try to get out of a fucked up situation and whine.
I also did mention going to South Korea.
You only need a BA to get into that gig. Leave your JD off your resume if you want.
-You go there, live like a king on that salary.
-Escape your debt, pay no American taxes = win/win
-if you are white, get laid quickly
If you are already married you can still do this. It's your choice really, nobody will stop you from living with parents. Maybe living with your parents might actually make them happier because you can spend quality time with them.
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suicideispainless (Jul 31 - 4:06 am)
All of this is true. My inertia is truly revolting to me. It's just taken on a life of its own where I feel powerless to extricate myself from this position. I think my only chance is to try to break in to sales. Otherwise, no employer is interested in a 33 year old with a law degree who got flushed out of a pretty crappy firm.
Yes, of course there are people in the world who don't even have their physical needs met. I can't imagine that since I've never faced it. It's almost too much to bear thinking about children who have no shot right from the get-go. It's sickening that I've had more advantages than most people in the world (good health, a BA and a law degree) and have essentially done nothing with them and can't figure out something to do with them.
In any case, I would never kill myself while my mom and sister are alive. Not even I am that selfish. It would virtually wreck their lives for months, or at least weeks.
Yes, I know, I need to get laid. I am painfully aware of this. However, I don't want to just get laid. I think the only thing that could possibly turn things around for me is meeting someone I actually can relate to and who relates to me. Unlikely I'll do this while I'm sleeping on mom's couch, so I'm out one way or another real soon, even if it means Korea (ugh).
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All of this is true. My inertia is truly revolting to me. It's just taken on a life of its own where I feel powerless to extricate myself from this position. I think my only chance is to try to break in to sales. Otherwise, no employer is interested in a 33 year old with a law degree who got flushed out of a pretty crappy firm.
Yes, of course there are people in the world who don't even have their physical needs met. I can't imagine that since I've never faced it. It's almost too much to bear thinking about children who have no shot right from the get-go. It's sickening that I've had more advantages than most people in the world (good health, a BA and a law degree) and have essentially done nothing with them and can't figure out something to do with them.
In any case, I would never kill myself while my mom and sister are alive. Not even I am that selfish. It would virtually wreck their lives for months, or at least weeks.
Yes, I know, I need to get laid. I am painfully aware of this. However, I don't want to just get laid. I think the only thing that could possibly turn things around for me is meeting someone I actually can relate to and who relates to me. Unlikely I'll do this while I'm sleeping on mom's couch, so I'm out one way or another real soon, even if it means Korea (ugh).
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pharmstudent (Jul 31 - 1:48 pm)
You seem very picky for a person that entertains the idea of suicide.
Seriously though, if you broke into sales, do honestly think you'll be able to pay all those student loans you've accumulated? Doubtful. You'll be lucky to make minimum payments to Sally while living with your mother for the next 20 years. Korea is an out for you, I'd think about it.
In the meantime I think you should go see a physician. I think you are in serious need of some Sertraline 100mg.
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You seem very picky for a person that entertains the idea of suicide.
Seriously though, if you broke into sales, do honestly think you'll be able to pay all those student loans you've accumulated? Doubtful. You'll be lucky to make minimum payments to Sally while living with your mother for the next 20 years. Korea is an out for you, I'd think about it.
In the meantime I think you should go see a physician. I think you are in serious need of some Sertraline 100mg.
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suicideispainless (Jul 31 - 8:53 pm)
I paid my loans off before I got fired, which is part of the reason for the pickiness. That, and inertia. It fills me with inertia.
TTTsuicide- I cannot killself until my mom goes and even then it will be uncertain since my sister would also be unhappy.
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I paid my loans off before I got fired, which is part of the reason for the pickiness. That, and inertia. It fills me with inertia.
TTTsuicide- I cannot killself until my mom goes and even then it will be uncertain since my sister would also be unhappy.
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dwismos (Jul 31 - 10:21 pm)
Dude, if you are debt free you have no reason to check out. You can take out business loans and start small business after small business over the next two decades. A coffee cart, an ice cream shop/cart, etc. Treat it all like a goof. Stop thinking in a linear manner.
Being a failure is not a bad thing, bro. When you are old and on social security, you'll be able to sit and read books of all kinds. You may be eating food out of a can but it will be relaxing and well worth the wait.
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Dude, if you are debt free you have no reason to check out. You can take out business loans and start small business after small business over the next two decades. A coffee cart, an ice cream shop/cart, etc. Treat it all like a goof. Stop thinking in a linear manner.
Being a failure is not a bad thing, bro. When you are old and on social security, you'll be able to sit and read books of all kinds. You may be eating food out of a can but it will be relaxing and well worth the wait.
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suicideispainless (Jul 31 - 11:58 pm)
Who is going to lend this money for a business? Very unlikely to get a loan without putting a huge down payment on the business.
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Who is going to lend this money for a business? Very unlikely to get a loan without putting a huge down payment on the business.
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dwismos (Aug 1 - 12:04 am)
Start a coffee stand. That is cheap, bro. Or, start driving truck to raise the money.
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Start a coffee stand. That is cheap, bro. Or, start driving truck to raise the money.
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pharmstudent (Aug 1 - 11:27 am)
You can still raise capital by teaching in Korea. You'd only save like 20k a year but it's something. Or...you could do sales. I just find the latter more degrading.
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You can still raise capital by teaching in Korea. You'd only save like 20k a year but it's something. Or...you could do sales. I just find the latter more degrading.
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suicideispainless (Aug 1 - 1:02 pm)
Don't get me wrong, I will definitely do Korea if I haven't found a job when my unemployment runs out. Sales is definitely degrading 99% of the time. For the rare 1% who get in with a good company and sell a good product that people actually want, it's not so bad. These gigs are about as easy to get as BigLaw.
Yeah with 20K I could probably finance the rest on a business costing 50-100K to start up. I think something simple like an ice cream truck could be a possibility. Not sure how much they make in the summer but if you could support yourself doing that seasonally it would be awesome.
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Don't get me wrong, I will definitely do Korea if I haven't found a job when my unemployment runs out. Sales is definitely degrading 99% of the time. For the rare 1% who get in with a good company and sell a good product that people actually want, it's not so bad. These gigs are about as easy to get as BigLaw.
Yeah with 20K I could probably finance the rest on a business costing 50-100K to start up. I think something simple like an ice cream truck could be a possibility. Not sure how much they make in the summer but if you could support yourself doing that seasonally it would be awesome.
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causanortis (Jul 31 - 2:45 am)
Oh you're not the first to talk about the Foriegn Legion, we average a comment on them at least once a week..
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Oh you're not the first to talk about the Foriegn Legion, we average a comment on them at least once a week..
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TTTsuicide (Jul 31 - 2:01 pm)
My life is pretty pointless. suicideispainless, let's make a suicide pact. tttsuicide@yahoo.com. I have no interest in living anymore knowing that I have had plenty of chances to make something of myself and have not done it.
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My life is pretty pointless. suicideispainless, let's make a suicide pact. tttsuicide@yahoo.com. I have no interest in living anymore knowing that I have had plenty of chances to make something of myself and have not done it.
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Donald13 (Jul 31 - 2:07 pm)
Make it look like murder. This way ou get the life insurance pay out.
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Make it look like murder. This way ou get the life insurance pay out.
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cowgod (Jul 31 - 4:32 pm)
I wouldn't say that. What do your outstanding student loans look like? You may be worth significantly more dead ($0) than alive (-$X).
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I wouldn't say that. What do your outstanding student loans look like? You may be worth significantly more dead ($0) than alive (-$X).
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TTTsuicide (Jul 31 - 5:30 pm)
you're right. my debt does outweigh my total lifetime income earning potential. I'm costing my family money to keep me alive as well. I'm much more valuable dead than alive in that regard. thanks for reminding me.
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you're right. my debt does outweigh my total lifetime income earning potential. I'm costing my family money to keep me alive as well. I'm much more valuable dead than alive in that regard. thanks for reminding me.
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dwismos (Jul 31 - 10:26 pm)
You can overcome this debt thing. Work for under the table money and accept that the debt will always be there. Laugh it off. Move to Korea, get Canadian citizenship. Hell, move to South America. Hugo Chavez may give you debtor's amnesty (I don't know if something like that exists but it would be cool.).
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You can overcome this debt thing. Work for under the table money and accept that the debt will always be there. Laugh it off. Move to Korea, get Canadian citizenship. Hell, move to South America. Hugo Chavez may give you debtor's amnesty (I don't know if something like that exists but it would be cool.).
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pharmstudent (Aug 1 - 1:33 am)
Canada? The job situation there is arguably worse.
If you could get your skills recognized as a lawyer you may be able to get a job. There is no saturation there...but it sounds practically impossible to get your skills recognized - it's tightly controlled. Not only that but I think your debtors may follow you over to Canada. I'm not sure I'll have to some research on this topic.
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Canada? The job situation there is arguably worse.
If you could get your skills recognized as a lawyer you may be able to get a job. There is no saturation there...but it sounds practically impossible to get your skills recognized - it's tightly controlled. Not only that but I think your debtors may follow you over to Canada. I'm not sure I'll have to some research on this topic.
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TiredofStrugglin (Aug 5 - 2:50 pm)
like from Louis CK's comedy routine:
you ever have negative money? that's depressing, isn't it? you look at your bank account: negative $10. that's how much i have now. negative 10! that means i don't even have 'no money' now. i wish i did! i wish i didn't have anything! i wish i just had nothing, but i have less than that. i don't have 'none.' i have 'not ten.' if it's free, i can't fucking afford it! somebody could come up to and say "take this, it's free"... "fuck, that costs nothing! i can't afford that, that's MORE than i have." i gotta raise ten bucks to be broke, that's where i'm at.
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like from Louis CK's comedy routine:
you ever have negative money? that's depressing, isn't it? you look at your bank account: negative $10. that's how much i have now. negative 10! that means i don't even have 'no money' now. i wish i did! i wish i didn't have anything! i wish i just had nothing, but i have less than that. i don't have 'none.' i have 'not ten.' if it's free, i can't fucking afford it! somebody could come up to and say "take this, it's free"... "fuck, that costs nothing! i can't afford that, that's MORE than i have." i gotta raise ten bucks to be broke, that's where i'm at.
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EntrepreneurialAtty (Jul 31 - 5:14 pm)
You guys are so funny. Correction...not 'you', 'we' are miserable yet funny.
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You guys are so funny. Correction...not 'you', 'we' are miserable yet funny.
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FrankytheFly (Aug 5 - 2:39 pm)
It's hard for happy people to understand the mentality of someone who is seriously considering suicide. Consider the case of unemployed and underemployed lawyers:
Imagine if your entire world view and sense of self worth collapsed. One day you wake up and discover that almost everything you ever believed about the world and about yourself is false and that you have been living under a societal and self-encouraged delusion for your entire life.
You used to believe that we lived in a "Meritocracy" where hard work and an investment in improving your productive ability would guarantee you an at least middle class existence. You used to support free market economics, but now you find yourself starting to sympathize with the socialists. You find yourself thinking, "What a moron I was, how could I have ever supported free market ideals?"
You used to think that you were smart and wise and that you would make better decisions in life than other people. The core of your identity was based on your intelligence and your ability to make rational judgments. You have now discovered that everything you thought about the world is completely false! Also, you are learning that you are not smart, but merely a member of the sheeple who believed the propaganda and indoctrination about how education is a guarantor of economic success.
You are older and wiser now, but you are not free to live your life with this new information because you are now saddled with $140,000 of student loan debt that you cannot discharge in bankruptcy. You are also learning that you are unemployable outside of the legal profession because employers will consider you to be overqualified and a huge loser!
You had always planned to purchase your own home one day, to attract an equally smart, good-looking woman and to settle down and have kids. That dream has been smashed! Women now think you are a complete loser. (Your sense of worthiness as a man; your sexual identity was very much connected to your ability to earn income.) As you look up and see a ray of sunshine entering the depths of your parents' basement through an opaque window, you cannot envision any way that you would ever be able to own your own house or be able to afford to raise children.
You graduated from law school a year ago and with each passing day you become increasingly unemployable. No one in your family can understand why you are such a loser and you hear about it daily.
But wait! Surely the nation's economy will get better, right? It always has recovered before and these sorts of things work themselves out for good people.
But what if you sincerely, intellectually believed that there was no hope for an economic recovery, that your nation was headed for catastrophic economic collapse, and that employment conditions in your nation would only continue to worsen. You feel like a burden to your family and you are tired of feeling humiliated, depressed, and hopeless. You have nothing to look forward to in life other than continued mental anguish and frustration. You soon realize that you no longer have any energy or motivation and that you have more or less lost your will and desire to live. Might you then off yourself?
I think that's the mindset that people are suffering under and it is completely understandable.
It's possible that many people are only alive because they are afraid that killing themselves would devastate their loved ones. Another problem is that it isn't painless or pleasant to kill yourself; you can't just walk into a suicide center and request the daily special. ("I'd like IV Sedation with Nembutal please, then cremation.")
Imagine what would happen if the barrier to committing suicide were lowered. Suppose that suicide were fully legalized and that anyone could choose a humane, voluntary euthanasia like in the movie Soylent Green. Would the suicide centers overflow with customers? In Japan a simple and rather painless (but stinky) method involving the mixing of household chemicals to create a fatal poisonous gas became increasingly popular last year.
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/03/japanese-deterg/
Here's an entertaining site (click on the link at the top of this page):
http://megalodon.jp/2010-0207-0241-06/itteyosiiwatteyaru.web.fc2.com/howtodetergentsuicide.html
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It's hard for happy people to understand the mentality of someone who is seriously considering suicide. Consider the case of unemployed and underemployed lawyers:
Imagine if your entire world view and sense of self worth collapsed. One day you wake up and discover that almost everything you ever believed about the world and about yourself is false and that you have been living under a societal and self-encouraged delusion for your entire life.
You used to believe that we lived in a "Meritocracy" where hard work and an investment in improving your productive ability would guarantee you an at least middle class existence. You used to support free market economics, but now you find yourself starting to sympathize with the socialists. You find yourself thinking, "What a moron I was, how could I have ever supported free market ideals?"
You used to think that you were smart and wise and that you would make better decisions in life than other people. The core of your identity was based on your intelligence and your ability to make rational judgments. You have now discovered that everything you thought about the world is completely false! Also, you are learning that you are not smart, but merely a member of the sheeple who believed the propaganda and indoctrination about how education is a guarantor of economic success.
You are older and wiser now, but you are not free to live your life with this new information because you are now saddled with $140,000 of student loan debt that you cannot discharge in bankruptcy. You are also learning that you are unemployable outside of the legal profession because employers will consider you to be overqualified and a huge loser!
You had always planned to purchase your own home one day, to attract an equally smart, good-looking woman and to settle down and have kids. That dream has been smashed! Women now think you are a complete loser. (Your sense of worthiness as a man; your sexual identity was very much connected to your ability to earn income.) As you look up and see a ray of sunshine entering the depths of your parents' basement through an opaque window, you cannot envision any way that you would ever be able to own your own house or be able to afford to raise children.
You graduated from law school a year ago and with each passing day you become increasingly unemployable. No one in your family can understand why you are such a loser and you hear about it daily.
But wait! Surely the nation's economy will get better, right? It always has recovered before and these sorts of things work themselves out for good people.
But what if you sincerely, intellectually believed that there was no hope for an economic recovery, that your nation was headed for catastrophic economic collapse, and that employment conditions in your nation would only continue to worsen. You feel like a burden to your family and you are tired of feeling humiliated, depressed, and hopeless. You have nothing to look forward to in life other than continued mental anguish and frustration. You soon realize that you no longer have any energy or motivation and that you have more or less lost your will and desire to live. Might you then off yourself?
I think that's the mindset that people are suffering under and it is completely understandable.
It's possible that many people are only alive because they are afraid that killing themselves would devastate their loved ones. Another problem is that it isn't painless or pleasant to kill yourself; you can't just walk into a suicide center and request the daily special. ("I'd like IV Sedation with Nembutal please, then cremation.")
Imagine what would happen if the barrier to committing suicide were lowered. Suppose that suicide were fully legalized and that anyone could choose a humane, voluntary euthanasia like in the movie Soylent Green. Would the suicide centers overflow with customers? In Japan a simple and rather painless (but stinky) method involving the mixing of household chemicals to create a fatal poisonous gas became increasingly popular last year.
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/03/japanese-deterg/
Here's an entertaining site (click on the link at the top of this page):
http://megalodon.jp/2010-0207-0241-06/itteyosiiwatteyaru.web.fc2.com/howtodetergentsuicide.html
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therewillbeblood (Aug 5 - 5:15 pm)
I sometimes envy people who are in that hopeless situation. Wait, hear me out. If you are $140,000 in debt, no prospects, unemployed for years, burden to your family, you are free to reinvent yourself. Ignore your debt (a bad credit rating is better than death), travel across the country, drive a truck in a logging camp, or join a monastery, or something. My problem is I have the debt, but I also have a job that keeps my head above water; that's not freedom. I can't just quit my job because that WILL place burden on my family, a burden I could handle if I was unemployed due to no fault of my own, but not if I leave my job. Sometimes (frequently) I wish I could just be laid off.
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I sometimes envy people who are in that hopeless situation. Wait, hear me out. If you are $140,000 in debt, no prospects, unemployed for years, burden to your family, you are free to reinvent yourself. Ignore your debt (a bad credit rating is better than death), travel across the country, drive a truck in a logging camp, or join a monastery, or something. My problem is I have the debt, but I also have a job that keeps my head above water; that's not freedom. I can't just quit my job because that WILL place burden on my family, a burden I could handle if I was unemployed due to no fault of my own, but not if I leave my job. Sometimes (frequently) I wish I could just be laid off.
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causanortis (Aug 5 - 3:08 pm)
First I don't think suicide has to be painful there's always the Willy Loman method or swallowing a handful of sleeping pills and passing out in your bathtub with a sink mixed with bleach and amonia..
I'm not sure what the legality of suicide has to do this, unless you want your family to receieve your life insurance money..
There's no way of predicting how one's life will turn out in the end.. Colonel Sanders lived his entire life an abject failure until he started to market his family recipe for fried chicken to various low budget stores at the age of sixty.
Except in the case of terminal ill patients, I believe people who commit suicide early in life are just chickenshit.. They're chickenshit because the current period in their life seems so pointless and hopeless, they can no longer endure it and can't stick it out long enough to see that in most cases life does get better, dust yourself off, and find the cajones to ante up again..
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First I don't think suicide has to be painful there's always the Willy Loman method or swallowing a handful of sleeping pills and passing out in your bathtub with a sink mixed with bleach and amonia..
I'm not sure what the legality of suicide has to do this, unless you want your family to receieve your life insurance money..
There's no way of predicting how one's life will turn out in the end.. Colonel Sanders lived his entire life an abject failure until he started to market his family recipe for fried chicken to various low budget stores at the age of sixty.
Except in the case of terminal ill patients, I believe people who commit suicide early in life are just chickenshit.. They're chickenshit because the current period in their life seems so pointless and hopeless, they can no longer endure it and can't stick it out long enough to see that in most cases life does get better, dust yourself off, and find the cajones to ante up again..
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FrankytheFly (Aug 5 - 3:12 pm)
If it were made fully legal, you wouldn't need to get a shotgun and blow your brains out. Instead you could go to a suicide center (like a doctor's office) and obtain a humane, pleasant, painless suicide.
This is a large issue for a great many people, especially those who have terminal illnesses.
Reply
If it were made fully legal, you wouldn't need to get a shotgun and blow your brains out. Instead you could go to a suicide center (like a doctor's office) and obtain a humane, pleasant, painless suicide.
This is a large issue for a great many people, especially those who have terminal illnesses.
Reply
AssociateX (Aug 5 - 3:13 pm)
Your sense of worthiness as a man; your sexual identity was very much connected to your ability to earn income.)
_____________________
Men who commit suicide because of all this bullshit mentality deserve what they get. Therein lies the problem, not with their inability to find work but their own sense of self-worth. If you feel like shit because you aren't making big $$, then the problem is you and it doesn't matter how educated you are, you will always view yourself as a loser.
Sorry, but I just don't buy this excuse. Shit happens to everyone. Either learn to adapt or killself. People who view suicide as a "solution" to their problems have no mechanism for dealing with those problems.
Reply
Your sense of worthiness as a man; your sexual identity was very much connected to your ability to earn income.)
_____________________
Men who commit suicide because of all this bullshit mentality deserve what they get. Therein lies the problem, not with their inability to find work but their own sense of self-worth. If you feel like shit because you aren't making big $$, then the problem is you and it doesn't matter how educated you are, you will always view yourself as a loser.
Sorry, but I just don't buy this excuse. Shit happens to everyone. Either learn to adapt or killself. People who view suicide as a "solution" to their problems have no mechanism for dealing with those problems.
Reply
FrankytheFly (Aug 6 - 1:56 pm)
It's not just that; it's a combination of all those factors with your sense of sexual worthiness being one of those factors. And it's not just about merely earning $60,000/year and lamenting not earning $130,000. Rather, it's a situation where people are completely unemployed ($0/year) or looking at fast food wages and experiencing humiliation every waking moment of the day.
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It's not just that; it's a combination of all those factors with your sense of sexual worthiness being one of those factors. And it's not just about merely earning $60,000/year and lamenting not earning $130,000. Rather, it's a situation where people are completely unemployed ($0/year) or looking at fast food wages and experiencing humiliation every waking moment of the day.
Reply
causanortis (Aug 5 - 3:15 pm)
FrankytheFly (Aug 5 - 3:12 pm)
If it were made fully legal, you wouldn't need to get a shotgun and blow your brains out. Instead you could go to a suicide center (like a doctor's office) and obtain a humane, pleasant, painless suicide.
This is a large issue for a great many people, especially those who have terminal illnesses.
______________
Again, shallow a handful of sleeping pills, fill your sink up with bleach and amonia and pass out in the bathtub... As long as no one will be anywhere in your vicinity for the next 24 hours, you're pretty guaranteed to killself quite painlessly... but more to the point, it's my strongly held belief that ppl who do killself (except terminally ill patients) are for the most part just chickenshit.. Don't be chickenshit, dust yourself off, and figure out how to put the pieces back together or at least find the strength to get help.
Though I truly believe that outlawing euthanasia for terminal patients is truly fucking pointless, let's force people to endure meaningless suffering and drain more of their family's resources for little to no gain. Wait there is a point, pharmaceutical companies stocks might go down a half percent.
Reply
FrankytheFly (Aug 5 - 3:12 pm)
If it were made fully legal, you wouldn't need to get a shotgun and blow your brains out. Instead you could go to a suicide center (like a doctor's office) and obtain a humane, pleasant, painless suicide.
This is a large issue for a great many people, especially those who have terminal illnesses.
______________
Again, shallow a handful of sleeping pills, fill your sink up with bleach and amonia and pass out in the bathtub... As long as no one will be anywhere in your vicinity for the next 24 hours, you're pretty guaranteed to killself quite painlessly... but more to the point, it's my strongly held belief that ppl who do killself (except terminally ill patients) are for the most part just chickenshit.. Don't be chickenshit, dust yourself off, and figure out how to put the pieces back together or at least find the strength to get help.
Though I truly believe that outlawing euthanasia for terminal patients is truly fucking pointless, let's force people to endure meaningless suffering and drain more of their family's resources for little to no gain. Wait there is a point, pharmaceutical companies stocks might go down a half percent.
Reply
wolfman (Aug 5 - 5:23 pm)
NaOCl + 2NH3 -> 2NaONH3 + Cl2, right? Also, if inhaling chlorine isn't enough, NH3 + Cl2 -> NH2Cl + HCl.
Man, you'd be messed up if you survive though, w/lung damage and whatnot. I'd eat the gun first...
Reply
NaOCl + 2NH3 -> 2NaONH3 + Cl2, right? Also, if inhaling chlorine isn't enough, NH3 + Cl2 -> NH2Cl + HCl.
Man, you'd be messed up if you survive though, w/lung damage and whatnot. I'd eat the gun first...
Reply
causanortis (Aug 5 - 5:37 pm)
You'll be brain dead if you survived, then it really wouldn't matter all that much... At least you'll leave a somewhat undisfigured, bluish, bloated corpse... If you go the bullet to the head method you could just as well survive, but likely be totally disfigured and may not even be brain dead, such a failed attempt would likely be painful beyond belief.
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You'll be brain dead if you survived, then it really wouldn't matter all that much... At least you'll leave a somewhat undisfigured, bluish, bloated corpse... If you go the bullet to the head method you could just as well survive, but likely be totally disfigured and may not even be brain dead, such a failed attempt would likely be painful beyond belief.
Reply
aknas (Aug 5 - 6:02 pm)
Commentary: Big Law Suicides Becoming More Frequent?
Steven Harper
The American Lawyer
August 03, 2010
Yet another attorney has ended his own life.
On July 15, a Chicago subway train struck and killed a Reed Smith partner. Late last week, the Cook County medical examiner confirmed that the 57-year-old father of two intentionally placed himself in harm's way.
It's difficult to determine what leads anyone to take such an irrevocable step. The lines that tether each of us to this earth are thin and fragile. But the relative frequency with which lawyers in large firms have become the subject of such recent reports is disconcerting.
In April 2009 a 59-year-old Yale Law School graduate who headed Kilpatrick Stockton's Supreme Court and appellate advocacy group took his own life.
A month later, two more attorney suicides made the news -- an associate and a partner in two different large firms
In January 2010, a 45-year-old partner in Baker & Hostetler's Houston office apparently shot himself on a Galveston beach.
Are these events more frequent? Or just more frequently reported? I fear it's the former.
We've all encountered unhappy attorneys, but during my first 25 years in a big firm, I'd never heard of a lawyer anywhere who'd taken his or her own life. When I attended such a funeral for a young partner in 2005, eulogies confirmed that he'd battled internal demons since childhood.
That insight offered comfort. Survivors can move forward more easily when viewing themselves as dramatically different from the deceased. It requires a skill that lawyers hone: distinguishing otherwise relevant precedent.
Then came the unavoidable wave that began in early 2009.
Only those closest to the victim can even begin to describe the special circumstances surrounding his or her plight. The causes of such fatalities are as unique as the individuals involved. The choice to continue living becomes a frighteningly close call for some. Severe depression, other mental illness, and unrelenting physical pain can wreak incomprehensible havoc. None makes suicide a correct decision for the afflicted -- just understandable. But if any such factors contributed to the recent spate of law firm victims, the public reports didn't disclose them.
Maybe government lawyers, attorneys in small or midsize firms, or those in other positions are committing suicide, too, but receiving less media attention. For example, when a 64-year-old Connecticut solo real estate practitioner hanged himself in November 2009, press coverage was minimal. But such an argument loses its appeal when you consider that attorneys in the 250 largest firms comprise fewer than 15 percent of those practicing.
Does the interaction between the dominant large firm business model and the economic downturn provide a partial explanation? After all, most of the recently reported attorney suicides involved accomplished partners in their forties and fifties from some of the nation's largest law firms.
No single set of shoulders bears the blame, and only the respective firms know whether or to what extent their actions might have contributed specifically to these final acts. I make no accusations in that regard.
But as a general matter, firms adhering religiously to an MBA-mentality of misguided metrics -- billings, billable hours, and associate-partner leverage -- as fundamental criteria for lawyer evaluation have become less collegial and more unforgiving. Even in good times, justifying your own economic existence anew during every review cycle can be unsettling or worse. For some, the feared loss of income or status can be powerfully unpleasant.
Assuming that they might have contributed even minimally to these tragedies, the pressures of the dominant Big Law model aren't disappearing any time soon. So what's my point? Simply this: The regime doesn't have to victimize the most vulnerable.
Everyone -- especially lawyers -- should periodically assess whether the fit of a chosen job is right. Even if it's not, the work may still be an acceptable way to make a living. No job is perfect. But for some, the psychological toll can mount in dangerous ways. In such cases, only individual action can arrest a downward slide.
That might mean counseling, viewing your employment differently, finding a new legal job, or leaving the profession altogether. One thing is certain: For the chronically distressed, inaction can become a lethal decision.
In my convocation address to the Northwestern University Weinberg College of Arts & Sciences graduating class of 2010 last month, the line that interrupted my remarks with the longest and loudest applause from the 10,000 students and parents in attendance was also the most important:
"Seeking help when you need it is never a sign of weakness; it's proof of strength."
Steven J. Harper is an adjunct professor at Northwestern University. He recently retired as a partner at Kirkland & Ellis, after 30 years in private practice. His blog about the legal profession, The Belly of the Beast, can be found at www.thebellyofthebeast.wordpress.com. A version of the column above was first published on The Belly of the Beast.
This article first appeared on The Am Law Daily blog on AmericanLawyer.com.
Reply
Commentary: Big Law Suicides Becoming More Frequent?
Steven Harper
The American Lawyer
August 03, 2010
Yet another attorney has ended his own life.
On July 15, a Chicago subway train struck and killed a Reed Smith partner. Late last week, the Cook County medical examiner confirmed that the 57-year-old father of two intentionally placed himself in harm's way.
It's difficult to determine what leads anyone to take such an irrevocable step. The lines that tether each of us to this earth are thin and fragile. But the relative frequency with which lawyers in large firms have become the subject of such recent reports is disconcerting.
In April 2009 a 59-year-old Yale Law School graduate who headed Kilpatrick Stockton's Supreme Court and appellate advocacy group took his own life.
A month later, two more attorney suicides made the news -- an associate and a partner in two different large firms
In January 2010, a 45-year-old partner in Baker & Hostetler's Houston office apparently shot himself on a Galveston beach.
Are these events more frequent? Or just more frequently reported? I fear it's the former.
We've all encountered unhappy attorneys, but during my first 25 years in a big firm, I'd never heard of a lawyer anywhere who'd taken his or her own life. When I attended such a funeral for a young partner in 2005, eulogies confirmed that he'd battled internal demons since childhood.
That insight offered comfort. Survivors can move forward more easily when viewing themselves as dramatically different from the deceased. It requires a skill that lawyers hone: distinguishing otherwise relevant precedent.
Then came the unavoidable wave that began in early 2009.
Only those closest to the victim can even begin to describe the special circumstances surrounding his or her plight. The causes of such fatalities are as unique as the individuals involved. The choice to continue living becomes a frighteningly close call for some. Severe depression, other mental illness, and unrelenting physical pain can wreak incomprehensible havoc. None makes suicide a correct decision for the afflicted -- just understandable. But if any such factors contributed to the recent spate of law firm victims, the public reports didn't disclose them.
Maybe government lawyers, attorneys in small or midsize firms, or those in other positions are committing suicide, too, but receiving less media attention. For example, when a 64-year-old Connecticut solo real estate practitioner hanged himself in November 2009, press coverage was minimal. But such an argument loses its appeal when you consider that attorneys in the 250 largest firms comprise fewer than 15 percent of those practicing.
Does the interaction between the dominant large firm business model and the economic downturn provide a partial explanation? After all, most of the recently reported attorney suicides involved accomplished partners in their forties and fifties from some of the nation's largest law firms.
No single set of shoulders bears the blame, and only the respective firms know whether or to what extent their actions might have contributed specifically to these final acts. I make no accusations in that regard.
But as a general matter, firms adhering religiously to an MBA-mentality of misguided metrics -- billings, billable hours, and associate-partner leverage -- as fundamental criteria for lawyer evaluation have become less collegial and more unforgiving. Even in good times, justifying your own economic existence anew during every review cycle can be unsettling or worse. For some, the feared loss of income or status can be powerfully unpleasant.
Assuming that they might have contributed even minimally to these tragedies, the pressures of the dominant Big Law model aren't disappearing any time soon. So what's my point? Simply this: The regime doesn't have to victimize the most vulnerable.
Everyone -- especially lawyers -- should periodically assess whether the fit of a chosen job is right. Even if it's not, the work may still be an acceptable way to make a living. No job is perfect. But for some, the psychological toll can mount in dangerous ways. In such cases, only individual action can arrest a downward slide.
That might mean counseling, viewing your employment differently, finding a new legal job, or leaving the profession altogether. One thing is certain: For the chronically distressed, inaction can become a lethal decision.
In my convocation address to the Northwestern University Weinberg College of Arts & Sciences graduating class of 2010 last month, the line that interrupted my remarks with the longest and loudest applause from the 10,000 students and parents in attendance was also the most important:
"Seeking help when you need it is never a sign of weakness; it's proof of strength."
Steven J. Harper is an adjunct professor at Northwestern University. He recently retired as a partner at Kirkland & Ellis, after 30 years in private practice. His blog about the legal profession, The Belly of the Beast, can be found at www.thebellyofthebeast.wordpress.com. A version of the column above was first published on The Belly of the Beast.
This article first appeared on The Am Law Daily blog on AmericanLawyer.com.
Reply
TiredofStrugglin (Aug 5 - 7:35 pm)
wtf. these are BIGLAW partners and associates. they make shitloads of money. and to have made it into and stayed in biglaw, they had stellar pedigree before even getting that first job, and that pedigree has multiplied by their biglaw tenure.
if they don't like the stress of biglaw, they could probably pretty easily segue into something less hectic and still make a pretty good fucking living. like, being a government attorney. or a small law firm.
i don't have a ton of sympathy for folks who kill themselves over the golden handcuffs they strapped onto their own wrists. they're rich, in the grand scheme of things. sure, not Bill Gates/Warren Buffet rich (that's a superrich class unto itself), but pretty fucking rich. they either paid off their law school loans within a couple of years, or easily could have if they hadn't been spending so much money on tons of stupid crap first. between their money and their awesome benefits, they can get mental health treatment.
other people toil away at shitjobs for shitpay, with shitty benefits or no benefits at all. those people have more valid reasons to be depressed, but can't even afford to see someone about it or at least get some f'ing happy pills for it.
if someone's going to write a pity story about suicide, write it about someone who maybe had a halfway decent reason to be in such abject misery.
/rant
Reply
Post a message in this threadwtf. these are BIGLAW partners and associates. they make shitloads of money. and to have made it into and stayed in biglaw, they had stellar pedigree before even getting that first job, and that pedigree has multiplied by their biglaw tenure.
if they don't like the stress of biglaw, they could probably pretty easily segue into something less hectic and still make a pretty good fucking living. like, being a government attorney. or a small law firm.
i don't have a ton of sympathy for folks who kill themselves over the golden handcuffs they strapped onto their own wrists. they're rich, in the grand scheme of things. sure, not Bill Gates/Warren Buffet rich (that's a superrich class unto itself), but pretty fucking rich. they either paid off their law school loans within a couple of years, or easily could have if they hadn't been spending so much money on tons of stupid crap first. between their money and their awesome benefits, they can get mental health treatment.
other people toil away at shitjobs for shitpay, with shitty benefits or no benefits at all. those people have more valid reasons to be depressed, but can't even afford to see someone about it or at least get some f'ing happy pills for it.
if someone's going to write a pity story about suicide, write it about someone who maybe had a halfway decent reason to be in such abject misery.
/rant
Reply