Today I scared our law clerks
unfrozenlawyer (Jul 28 - 11:25 pm)
With visions of permanent document review by giving them some super boring shit to review. Good times.
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With visions of permanent document review by giving them some super boring shit to review. Good times.
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AJRESQ (Jul 28 - 11:50 pm)
I give ours all the complex research because I hate doing that shit. I would rather be focused on stuff like depositions, trial, client management, etc. I hate doing the actual legal research.
They're beginning to think that lawyering is nothing but thinking through complex issues and research.
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I give ours all the complex research because I hate doing that shit. I would rather be focused on stuff like depositions, trial, client management, etc. I hate doing the actual legal research.
They're beginning to think that lawyering is nothing but thinking through complex issues and research.
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unfrozenlawyer (Jul 28 - 11:53 pm)
Ours have had a good summer. They've had a huge trial; loads of research ; and now document review as I rev up for a trial in october.
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Ours have had a good summer. They've had a huge trial; loads of research ; and now document review as I rev up for a trial in october.
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AJRESQ (Jul 29 - 12:14 am)
That is the sad thing. I could teach these kids a lot of stuff if they could take a deposition with me supervising or something. Maybe manage a small case or argue a motion.
Instead, they're relegated to legal research... the same shit they do in law school.
So then we see newly minted attorneys sent to the slaughter having never done any actual legal work, because they weren't allowed to in law school. The only useful skill a law clerk learns end up being drafting pleadings and discovery.
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That is the sad thing. I could teach these kids a lot of stuff if they could take a deposition with me supervising or something. Maybe manage a small case or argue a motion.
Instead, they're relegated to legal research... the same shit they do in law school.
So then we see newly minted attorneys sent to the slaughter having never done any actual legal work, because they weren't allowed to in law school. The only useful skill a law clerk learns end up being drafting pleadings and discovery.
Reply
TTTheaven (Jul 29 - 1:00 am)
I agree that summer law clerks should try, if possible, to participate in the more practical aspects of being a lawyer.
However, research and writing is pretty damn important. In my line of work, I am always amazed at how often attorneys - from biglaw all the way down to shitlaw - simply get the law wrong or misapply it. And I'm not talking about going on some fishing expedition trying to find every case that is arguably relevant within a jurisdiction. I'm talking about failing to open up the annotated code or a west digest, which in most cases, would have been all that was necessary.
It's still important to hone research and writing skills once you've been practicing, which unfortunately, many attorneys fail to do.
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I agree that summer law clerks should try, if possible, to participate in the more practical aspects of being a lawyer.
However, research and writing is pretty damn important. In my line of work, I am always amazed at how often attorneys - from biglaw all the way down to shitlaw - simply get the law wrong or misapply it. And I'm not talking about going on some fishing expedition trying to find every case that is arguably relevant within a jurisdiction. I'm talking about failing to open up the annotated code or a west digest, which in most cases, would have been all that was necessary.
It's still important to hone research and writing skills once you've been practicing, which unfortunately, many attorneys fail to do.
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TiredofStrugglin (Jul 29 - 9:47 am)
i'm always shocked at how shittily most attorneys write their pleadings. and i'm not talking about typos (everyone makes those occasionally). i constantly see godawful bloated quasi-English hyperbole that would make one think the attorney is a comedian simply satirizing a pleading.
as for getting the wrong law or misapplying it... i often see cases cited in briefs with parenthetical summaries, but when i actually read those cases, they have little to do with the subject at hand.
sadly, it seems the courts rarely read pleadings, except in the summers when judges have interns
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i'm always shocked at how shittily most attorneys write their pleadings. and i'm not talking about typos (everyone makes those occasionally). i constantly see godawful bloated quasi-English hyperbole that would make one think the attorney is a comedian simply satirizing a pleading.
as for getting the wrong law or misapplying it... i often see cases cited in briefs with parenthetical summaries, but when i actually read those cases, they have little to do with the subject at hand.
sadly, it seems the courts rarely read pleadings, except in the summers when judges have interns
Reply
therewillbeblood (Jul 29 - 10:56 am)
Yep I've noticed the same thing. And while I've heard a lot of practicing attorneys complain that law students are only taught to research and write, I know I, and most of the people I knew in law school, did a minimum of actual finding case law, and drafting actual legal documents, so never really knew what they were talking about. Outside of legal research class and maybe a few seminars most of the case law I read was given to me in the text book. Actually finding cases and figuring out if they're on point is something I had to learn after school.
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Yep I've noticed the same thing. And while I've heard a lot of practicing attorneys complain that law students are only taught to research and write, I know I, and most of the people I knew in law school, did a minimum of actual finding case law, and drafting actual legal documents, so never really knew what they were talking about. Outside of legal research class and maybe a few seminars most of the case law I read was given to me in the text book. Actually finding cases and figuring out if they're on point is something I had to learn after school.
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AJRESQ (Jul 29 - 12:01 pm)
Research and writing is very important. However, I think it's one of many important aspects. I think it's hard to tie it all together when you've never seen it in action.
And such is the irony of law: the LSAT has nothing to do with law school. Law school has nothing to do with passing the bar exam. And the bar exam has nothing to do with the practice of law...
Regarding pleadings, I see what you're saying but the goal is often to be as vague as possible to allow you to change your position as the litigation goes on. So sometimes shitty pleadings end up being beneficial... I suspect it's either intentional or it's never burned them in the ass so they don't care.
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Research and writing is very important. However, I think it's one of many important aspects. I think it's hard to tie it all together when you've never seen it in action.
And such is the irony of law: the LSAT has nothing to do with law school. Law school has nothing to do with passing the bar exam. And the bar exam has nothing to do with the practice of law...
Regarding pleadings, I see what you're saying but the goal is often to be as vague as possible to allow you to change your position as the litigation goes on. So sometimes shitty pleadings end up being beneficial... I suspect it's either intentional or it's never burned them in the ass so they don't care.
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therewillbeblood (Jul 29 - 9:28 am)
You should sneak up behind them occasionally and yell "CLICK CLICK."
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You should sneak up behind them occasionally and yell "CLICK CLICK."
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LexCorde (Jul 29 - 11:22 am)
Well what is the practice of law if not legal research and writing and reviewing documents. Granted we make fun of those who do doc review but it is merely the modern day adaptation of what lawyers always did, especially young lawyers just starting out. You do need advanced knowledge and training to read documents regarding corporate affairs or litigation. It was once done with boxes and boxes of documents. Now technology has simplified it into the PC. It is still the same concept. We shouldn't be looking down on anyone because there is always someone above us. Law students are trained for the most part to read, research, and write like lawyers do. There are some aspects of law practice that require on the job training and mentorship. So let's help our fellow practitioners rather tnan criticize.
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Well what is the practice of law if not legal research and writing and reviewing documents. Granted we make fun of those who do doc review but it is merely the modern day adaptation of what lawyers always did, especially young lawyers just starting out. You do need advanced knowledge and training to read documents regarding corporate affairs or litigation. It was once done with boxes and boxes of documents. Now technology has simplified it into the PC. It is still the same concept. We shouldn't be looking down on anyone because there is always someone above us. Law students are trained for the most part to read, research, and write like lawyers do. There are some aspects of law practice that require on the job training and mentorship. So let's help our fellow practitioners rather tnan criticize.
Reply
borntoinspire (Jul 29 - 11:52 am)
I'm a law clerk. I've browsed the Internet for almost the entire summer while getting paid pretty decently. Actually, not having work to do is torture. I can see why my friend quit his desk job out of boredom to travel South America for 4 months.
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I'm a law clerk. I've browsed the Internet for almost the entire summer while getting paid pretty decently. Actually, not having work to do is torture. I can see why my friend quit his desk job out of boredom to travel South America for 4 months.
Reply
borntoinspire (Jul 29 - 11:53 am)
"The only useful skill a law clerk learns end up being drafting pleadings and discovery."
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DING DING DING; that's basically all I've done when I wasn't browsing websites for 8 hours a day
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"The only useful skill a law clerk learns end up being drafting pleadings and discovery."
________________________________________________________
DING DING DING; that's basically all I've done when I wasn't browsing websites for 8 hours a day
Reply
kansas (Jul 29 - 12:34 pm)
I hired a law clerk this summer - I just sent him an email with forms, the statutes, and instructions to do all the pleadings for determination of descent. So he has seen his thrilling future. lol
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Post a message in this threadI hired a law clerk this summer - I just sent him an email with forms, the statutes, and instructions to do all the pleadings for determination of descent. So he has seen his thrilling future. lol
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